A heated exchange between conservative commentators Ben Shapiro and Megyn Kelly Thursday night reportedly laid bare a widening rift within the right over how to approach foreign strongmen and the boundaries of ideological loyalty.
During a live discussion hosted by Kelly, Shapiro erupted after the former Fox News anchor appeared to offer a partial defense of Tucker Carlson’s recent remarks praising Venezuelan dictator Nicolás Maduro as a “cultural conservative.”
Shapiro, the co-founder of The Daily Wire, did not hold back when criticizing Carlson’s record of sympathetic commentary toward authoritarian regimes. “If I see somebody breach basic moral values by having on a Nazi, and in my own view — take your own view — in my own view, gloss the Nazi, then I’m going to speak out about that,” Shapiro said. “I’m gonna point out that there is a long pattern of him ideologically laundering terrible ideas over the course of the last two years, ranging from traveling to Russia to sniff the bread and explain why the Russian regime is actually wonderful, to saying last week the Venezuelan regime of Nicolás Maduro is actually not that bad because they’re being attacked by, in his words, ‘globo-homo.’”
Kelly, who has defended Carlson in the past as a friend and former colleague, interjected: “Tucker’s made the point — I’m not gonna try to be Tucker’s defender — but he’s made the point that Maduro is cultural conservative.”
That suggestion prompted an immediate and fiery response. “Who gives a sht!?” Shapiro shot back. “The guy’s a communist dictator!” He went on to dismiss the notion that any social conservatism on Maduro’s part could outweigh the repression and economic collapse that have defined his rule. “I don’t give a sht whether he’s anti-LGBTQ rights! This is the number one thing about Nicolás Maduro? You know how far down the list you have to get before you can get to anything remotely recommendable about Nicolás Maduro?”
The exchange underscored a growing tension in conservative circles over Carlson’s increasingly populist and nationalist rhetoric, which has at times cast figures like Russia’s Vladimir Putin and Venezuela’s Maduro in a more sympathetic light. Shapiro has been one of Carlson’s most vocal critics on the right, accusing him of blurring moral lines and giving cover to regimes hostile to freedom and democracy.
Kelly, by contrast, has defended Carlson as an “important, valuable voice in the national conversation,” while insisting that criticism of his views should not be conflated with personal attacks. “I love him, we’re friends,” she said last month. “I don’t think he’s an anti-Semite at all.”
Still, her comments Thursday night drew visible frustration from Shapiro and revived a broader debate among conservatives about the ideological future of their movement. For some, Carlson’s embrace of anti-globalist, culture-first politics has energized a segment of the base. For others, like Shapiro, it risks aligning American conservatism with authoritarian models it once rejected.
The sharp exchange between two of the right’s most prominent media figures revealed both the passion and the unease shaping conservative discourse — a movement wrestling with where to draw its moral lines in an era when cultural identity, nationalism, and traditional values increasingly intersect with questions of global power and freedom.
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