New York Times reporter Jonathan Swan says one of the most emotionally difficult sections of his upcoming book with fellow reporter Maggie Haberman centered on the death of Turning Point USA founder Charlie Kirk, revealing that the conservative activist had become a close personal friend before he was killed.
Appearing on Meghan McCain’s podcast on July 15, Swan spoke candidly about his relationship with Kirk and the impact the loss had on him, describing the chapter covering Kirk’s death as one of the hardest parts of the book to write.
“I would just have interesting conversations with him,” Swan said. “I just found him a very insightful person who obviously had his hands in all kinds of things.”
According to Swan, the two spoke frequently and often exchanged ideas on politics and current events. He revealed that he had spoken with Kirk just one day before the Turning Point USA founder was shot and killed during a TP USA event at Utah Valley University last September.
Looking back on that final conversation, Swan said it continues to weigh heavily on him.
“I run that conversation through in my head like, all the time,” he said.
Swan explained that he and Kirk regularly challenged one another’s thinking and enjoyed discussing a wide range of topics. He said one of Kirk’s defining characteristics was his curiosity and willingness to engage with different ideas, something Swan said stood out throughout their friendship.
He also reflected on changes he observed in Kirk during the final months of his life, saying the conservative leader appeared to be evolving personally in several ways.
“I think he changed a lot in the last 18 months of his life,” Swan said. “I think he was connecting with his faith in a deeper way, I think he was exploring other points of view in a different way, I think being married had a big effect on him. He was less of a sort of knee-jerk kind of culture warrior.”
Swan pointed to Kirk’s marriage to Erika Kirk as a significant influence, saying it appeared to help shape him into a more well-rounded individual.
The forthcoming book, co-authored by Swan and Haberman, examines President Donald Trump’s return to the White House. Swan said one of the chapters recounts the day Trump learned that Kirk had been killed, describing the atmosphere inside the White House as one of shock and grief.
According to Swan, Barron Trump was the person who informed the president of Kirk’s death. He said the news immediately unsettled President Trump and spread quickly throughout his inner circle.
“It was like a zombie town in the West Wing that day,” Swan recalled, describing the mood among White House staff after the president learned of the killing.
Swan said Kirk’s death has continued to resonate throughout Republican political circles, arguing that his influence extended far beyond his role as founder of Turning Point USA.
He described Kirk as the “best fundraiser of his generation,” suggesting that his absence continues to be felt across the Republican Party.
Throughout the interview, Swan emphasized that his relationship with Kirk went beyond the typical interaction between a journalist and a political figure. He described their conversations as thoughtful and intellectually engaging, saying they frequently challenged each other’s perspectives while maintaining mutual respect.
Reflecting on the experience of writing about Kirk’s death, Swan said the chapter was especially difficult because of the friendship they had developed over the years, making the task far more personal than many of the other events covered in the book.
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